Brittany Dudek: Is this thing on? Kevin Corcoran: Hi. Zach Claybaugh: Hello? Kevin Corcoran: Is this thing on? Mike Mills: Hi, is this thing on? Zach Claybaugh: Is this thing on? Brittany Dudek: Is this thing on? Kevin Corcoran: Is this thing on? Brittany Dudek: Hi, is this thing on? Are we open? Kevin Corcoran: Welcome to Open-Ed Mic, a podcast where voices from across the educational landscape share insights, stories, and strategies for transforming learning through openness. Whether you're new to open education or a seasoned practitioner, Open-Ed Mic invites you into the conversation. Let's see who's joining us today. Brittany? Brittany Dudek: Hi everyone, I'm Brittany Dudek, Director of Learning Resources at the Colorado Community College System. Kevin Corcoran: Mike. Mike Mills: Hi, it's Mike Mills, formerly of Montgomery College, and now entered the world of retirement. Kevin Corcoran: And we are all jealous. Zach. Brittany Dudek: Jealous. Zach Claybaugh: Hi, everybody. This is Zach Claybaugh. I'm the Access and Reference Services Librarian at Dominican University, just outside of Chicago, Illinois. Kevin Corcoran: And I am Kevin Corcoran from the University of Central Florida. So what we are going to do this time is, we do not have any special guests, but we thought as we swing into the new year and as we gear up for Open Ed Week in March, we thought we'd take a moment and reflect back on Open Ed 2025, and share a little bit of our experiences. I will say it was fantastic seeing my colleagues here in real life. We not only got the chance to spend a little bit of time and grab some food, but we actually had a presentation that we did. And so, at least for me, that was great fun. Mike Mills: Yeah, Kevin, I would agree with that. I think for so many of us, we see each other on a screen, two by two, and it was just nice to see people in person. It was almost like a family reunion, but with people you wanted to see. Brittany Dudek: Open Ed is always my favorite event of the year, or years, because it's not been in person for a while, that I've been able to attend. I was supposed to attend the year before, but I had a prior work commitment that I couldn't make it for. So it really was like a family reunion, and it was so good. Also, it being in my work town, that was good and bad, since I couldn't stay in the hotel. That was a little bit of a challenge having to go home each night, and kind of go home and then go back to the conference, and recheck in. That was a little bit hard, but it was really fun to be able to show off my city. Zach Claybaugh: Yeah. I always love a good excuse to get back to Denver. It had been a long time since I had been in the neighborhood, and always enjoy going there. This was actually my first in-person Open Ed, I had only attended virtually in the past. So it's really great to see everybody in person, but you get a different vibe, a different energy whenever there is an in-person event. It was really nice getting to meet a lot of people, getting to see a lot of people that I hadn't seen in a long time. We hear a lot of different strategies and stories, and things that you can pick up along the way, and hopefully apply to your own practices. And find new people that you can bug about what they do. Kevin Corcoran: For me, I hadn't been to Open Ed since 2019, when it was in Glendale, Arizona. So it was great to see so many people again, and it was great to see the reactions of folks that I hadn't seen in a while, and that didn't know I was coming. And it certainly inflated my ego for a day or two. Brittany Dudek: Yeah, I can feel that. That was the last time I was there too, so I had the same kind of feeling as you did. Kevin Corcoran: I wonder what your thoughts were about having the format be a mixture of in-person, virtual, hybrid. Was that good, that you could have this mix? Or did you find it a little bit disconnected, having those multiple formats? Mike Mills: I didn't see any issue with it. I do better with in-person conferences, myself. For those conferences that I have done virtually, and registered for, I find that it was too easy to be pulled into a meeting, or have people drop in and out of the office. So being in person, at least for me, allowed me to focus on what was being said, who was presenting, and really just focus on Open Ed, and not necessarily dealing with stuff at the office. Kevin Corcoran: And I'm sure, Brittany, you had to deal with that too, huh? Brittany Dudek: Yeah. I really had a lot of work that I had to work with, that week. I had some prior conferences, like the weeks leading up to Open Ed, and I was also down two team members while being in Open Ed. And the other conferences, too. So I had a lot of things that I had to take care of while being at the conference. So it actually kind of worked out really well for me that they had the multiple formats. I was able to be there in person, and then when I needed to step out and take care of some work things, there were also some sessions then that I was able to pop in and handle virtually. Because I didn't want to walk into a session in the middle of that session, or leave halfway through. And so that actually worked out very well for me. There was a couple of sessions that I attended, though, that they were those hybrid sessions where there were some presenters who were in person and some presenters who were virtual. Did anyone attend any of those sessions? Zach Claybaugh: Yeah, I attended a couple. Mike Mills: Yeah, I attended several of those. Brittany Dudek: Okay. Those were the only ones... So I really liked the format where they had virtual and in person, but I don't necessarily... While I loved the idea of the hybrid sessions, because it got people who weren't able to either travel to Denver, who weren't comfortable traveling to Denver, which I can respect and understand. I almost wish that all of the presenters were virtual, or the presentation was completely virtual, maybe with an in-person facilitator or something like that. Versus some being virtual and some being in person. I think they went fine. I just... I don't know. What does everyone else think? Mike Mills: One of the things that I noticed, Brittany, with those sessions was when the people were showing something on their screen, their Zoom screen, I couldn't read it from where I was sitting because it wasn't enlarged enough. And so I struggled with that. Zach Claybaugh: Yeah. I don't know. I mean, I didn't have a lot of issues with the hybrid sessions, and the mixed presenters, and things like that. I will also agree with Mike that seeing some of the screens and stuff like that was a little bit difficult. I know from attending different conferences in the past, being on the other side of a hybrid situation, attending virtually hybrid sessions, I've always found that to be a little bit difficult. One thing I will say that was really impressive about this particular conference was that there weren't many technical issues that I saw, which I think speaks to how well organized they were in putting together hybrid sessions that didn't run into major technical difficulties, which I think is a real achievement. Brittany Dudek: Agreed. Zach Claybaugh: It's not often that you get hybrid sessions that run without a blip. Kevin Corcoran: Kudos to Nicole Allen and Anika Meni, and the rest of the Spark team, for putting together a good show. I'm curious, we all have sort of different interests even though we intersect within this podcast and in our presentations. But based on going to the sessions you did, did you see any overarching themes for the week for you? Brittany Dudek: I mean, AI has taken over every single conference. I think it is incorporated into every session of every topic, even if it's not the point, whether it's a conference or just a meeting. So I thought that was kind of at the forefront for me, for a lot of those sessions, which is understandable. And I think it's relevant with open ed. Zach Claybaugh: Yeah. I think along with AI, I mean, really being the flavor of conferences across the board these days. I think the thing that I really enjoyed was that there were a number of sessions that were focused in on, "How do you tell your story? What are the metrics? How do you display it? What are the things that you're looking at, beyond just affordability, to speak to multiple audiences?" And I thought it was really nice seeing a number of sessions that focused around stuff like that. And that might have just been how I picked sessions, but there seemed to be a pretty consistent theme throughout the day, is that people were really pushing to present avenues to show your impact that stretched beyond, like I mentioned, the typical narrative of affordability. Mike Mills: Zach, I appreciate that. I think so many presentations early on in the open space were about affordability, and how much we're saving students. And I appreciated those sessions that had some data that demonstrated impact, that showed what the outcomes were. Because I think, for most of us anyway, we've moved beyond just the numbers. Certainly, from an affordability standpoint, that really impacts students. But to continue to sell open, it has to move beyond that affordability issue. And I think a lot of the sessions, at least those that I attended, did that. Kevin Corcoran: And one other trend that I would say I recognized was the sense of belonging in community. And then as an offshoot of that, because of the federal law change that's coming up, a lot of conversation around accessibility, digital accessibility. And how do we ensure that open materials are meeting standards? Brittany Dudek: Yeah, that was a hot topic for sure. Mike Mills: And Kevin, I think that's going to continue to be a big topic as the conversation moves forward on open, is just how do we make sure that the materials that we're using, the faculty are opting in for their class, are accessible to students? Zach Claybaugh: Yeah. And just to jump on the federal government side of it again, I think a lot of the changes coming through the Department of Education, and a lot of the, I think existing uncertainty in aspects of the higher education space. You could see that that was something that was part of some of the sessions, but really part of the overall discussion amongst people. And that included the accessibility things. But again also included a lot of the massive changes, and interruptions to funding, and things like that that have occurred. Kevin Corcoran: I had some impromptu conversations, but I'm fairly confident in what OpenStax is producing, and the vetting process that the Open Textbook Library does. And I know that in the past, Lumen has done a good job of vetting their materials, but I do think the community as a whole needs to have some standards. And whether it's a local run grant at an institution, a statewide one, or something that HP or a Hewlett Foundation is funding. There should be clear metrics around making sure that the end product is accessible. Mike Mills: I think one of the things that I was hearing a lot of is just concern about people not understanding what, one, the federal law is going to require. But two, where's the manpower coming from to make sure that all of this content is accessible? I think that's a big issue for a lot of institutions, and I heard a lot of that kind of conversation when we were in Denver. Brittany Dudek: Well, the resources in general for making something accessible. I mean, even if you have the time, you may not have the tools, you may not have the space to store something, or make it available. You may not have the knowledge, which is also something that has to be dealt with. It's just, the resources to make something accessible is daunting, especially if it needs to be remediated. If it's starting from scratch, that's one thing. But I think that accessibility in general is just such a large conversation, and the repercussions make it something that people are just kind of afraid to tackle. Zach Claybaugh: Yeah. I think just the overall resources from the federal government that are going to be utilized to oversee the accessibility side of it. But then, I think also just the lack of personnel at under-resourced institutions, not having the expertise, not having the people available with the time to go through and assist folks with... I mean, really, like Brittany said. Having to go through existing open educational resources, and trying to find ways to bring them up to compliance. There's just a lot of, I think, concern. There are budgetary issues across the board. This could potentially lead to the need for a large investment in infrastructure to build more accessible pathways to materials. So yeah, I think there's just a lot of uncertainty and concern. And particularly whenever you take into account that not everybody has the resources that some of the larger institutions do, and some of the more well-funded institutions. Mike Mills: Did any of you hear any conversation about concerns for faculty leaving the open space because of accessibility and the work that goes into it, and going back to a proprietary textbook where the publishers have already made their complimentary material accessible? I heard a couple of people talking about that, and I just hope that doesn't derail the work that has been done. Brittany Dudek: We are having those issues and conversations, that's being brought up because Colorado has a law in place already about accessibility, which is similar to the one that's going to take effect. So we have that discussion with our instructors and our faculty, about the requirements that we have, and what we need to happen with our course materials. And what resources need to be in place if we are going to adopt OER. So yeah, that is something that we struggle with, and it's a real conversation that we have. We have to have understanding about the resources that need to be in place, and the time it takes to remediate, or to start from scratch. Kevin Corcoran: Yeah. Brittany mentioned earlier before, is that AI was one of the prevailing themes for the conference. And I know that most of the focus in the conversation is about using AI to create content, especially since there's a sort of a zero license to it, but I do think that there's an opportunity to use AI to do accessibility reviews and remediation. And perhaps that's what we have to focus for those folks, is saying, "Hey, look, if you're really that scared, let's build a bot or some kind of agent that can help you assess on adoption. And if it has issues, let's help you remediate it." Zach Claybaugh: Anybody know if anything like that is in development anywhere? Kevin Corcoran: Well, I can say that UCF is in the process of creating an OER discovery bot, but it does not actually have the accessibility review built into it, but we do have a separate effort with that. So, inspiration. I'm going to see if we can merge the two, and make Reese's Peanut Butter Cups. Mike Mills: It would be an interesting opportunity to upload a presentation, a PowerPoint, for example, into one of these AI tools. And then, upload the new federal guidelines, and ask the AI tool to cross-reference the presentation with the guidelines and make recommendations on accessibility. Kevin Corcoran: There are a handful of tools out there that are, at a lesser level, doing some AI generated pieces. Like Arizona State University has this great tool that's freely available, that allows you to take complex images and it'll create alt text and description files. But I think we should challenge the community to start building tools for the benefit of all. Brittany Dudek: I love that call, because the only tools that I'm really using are proprietary tools from vendors. So I love the idea of a call to action for some openly licensed tools, or some freely available tools, for the good of the cause. I think that's an amazing idea. Mike Mills: Imagine the crowd that would attend that session at an Open Ed conference. Kevin Corcoran: All right, listeners, you heard it here. Next Open Ed, this group will be presenting... No, I'm not making that... I'm not making that promise. Brittany Dudek: That's a big promise. Zach Claybaugh: Don't do that to us, Kevin. Kevin Corcoran: Well, thinking about this session and the next one, I was wondering if we could talk a little bit about what the session was for you that week. And no, we cannot say the session that we did as panelists was the session, although it was. But beyond that one, what was the one that stood out for you? Brittany Dudek: So my favorite session of the week was actually the DOERS pre-conference session on workforce. The name of it was Horizon in Workforce Development and OER, or, sorry. Intersections on the Horizon in Workforce Development and OER. I work in community colleges, so really, community colleges and higher ed and workforce development go hand in hand. And OER is really kind of entering in that space, so that workshop was just so hands-on, and the tools that we walked away with were really just amazing. And I don't know if anyone saw yesterday, which would be the 10th of December, which is when we're recording. We're recording the 11th, but on the 10th of December, an executive order came out from the governor of Colorado talking about merging the Colorado Department of Higher Ed and the Department of Labor into a new Colorado Department of Workforce and Higher Education. And so, given the massive support for open education from Colorado's governor and the Colorado legislature, they just chose to fund the next year of OER grants, which comes through the Colorado Department of Higher Ed. With, I believe, a million dollars. So I'm just really interested to see how OER, and higher ed, and workforce kind of continues to intersect, to borrow from DOERS moving forward. And I really think that that session gave me some practical ideas to take forward as I want to continue investigating. Kevin Corcoran: Especially with the emergence of Workforce Pell. Brittany Dudek: Exactly. Kevin Corcoran: Mike or Zach, anything that stood out to either of you? Zach Claybaugh: Yeah. Actually, one of the sessions that I enjoyed the most was, I think it was the first one I went to for the conference. And that was a panel and Steel from Pressbooks was moderating it. So it's, what difference does it make, measuring and communicating the impact of OER initiatives? And I mean, it had a great panel of Stephanie Buck and TJ Bliss, Abbey Elder, and Virginia Clinton-Lisell. And I really appreciated all the different ways that they were showing the impact of open educational resources, ETC programs. And it was just really cool, lots of fun data points, really cool looking dashboards. The types of things that you look at and you're like, "Wow, if I built something like that at my institution, and was able to clearly show a lot of these different numbers, this is something that would really catch eyes." I think one of the other things that I thought was really interesting was the proposed new framework for open educational resources, so the scope method, which is looking at things like social justice, costs, outcomes, perception and engagement. I think it's a really interesting way to look at research projects, digging into the data around OER, and find ways to present those results in a way that can speak to a lot of different audiences. And I think that's something that ... And I know I talked about this at the beginning as a consistent theme that I saw across the different sessions, but this is something that I think is a really interesting way to tell the story. Tell the story of open educational resources at your institution, and do it in a structured way that can speak to a wide variety of audiences. I also, one of the data points on there was related to cost findings related to open educational resources, but also focused in on sort of pain points related to purchasing access codes for online homework systems. And looking at, in particular, how they were able to focus in around first generation students and then continuing generation students, and the massive differences associated with that as far as avoiding classes that had those expensive online homework system codes, grades that were damaged as a result, dropping classes and failing classes. So, yeah. Really cool stuff there. That was probably my favorite session, but a lot of really good ones. And I guess, Brittany, one other thing we should point out is that the governor of your fair state also came and spoke briefly at the opening of the conference. Brittany Dudek: Yes, he did. We're really lucky. He's a huge supporter, Governor Polis, of open ed in general, and has been for years. Which is pretty fantastic. Mike Mills: I had two favorite sessions, and they turned out to be back to back. The first one was Karen Cangialosi talking about an open science, open pedagogy program. And at least in my work that I was doing, I heard a lot of faculty who were in STEM saying, "How do we incorporate this work into STEM?" And I thought Karen did a really good job of demonstrating that curriculum, but it also ties into the sustainable development goal work that we've done, that we just highlighted in our last episode. So I found that session interesting. The other one that I found interesting was the AAC&U study, the large scale initiative that just demonstrated impact. And I think that is something that was needed. We often talk about impact at a system, or an individual school, but this cut across private, public, two year, four year, and I thought that was really powerful. They did a good job with that. Kevin Corcoran: Well, I'll share mine, which unfortunately is going to be redundant. I also sat in the same session that Zach did around what makes it a difference, and really focused on data and presenting that. And specifically, I'm going to focus in on what Virginia Clinton-Lisell presented, and really the guidance around making sure you have the data that you want to measure, and measuring the data that you want, and making sure you get that data. And just that whole sense of not trying to come to conclusions that your data doesn't support, and not necessarily assuming that your data supports your conclusions. And as a selfless plug, we do have Virginia Clinton-Lisell joining this podcast in the new year, so can't wait to have that conversation as well. As we go out of the sessions and into the hallways, I wonder if there's any hallway sessions, or any non-session related conversations we want to share. I can share that I had a great conversation with Daniel Williamson from OpenStax. Not only did we talk about his travel plans and what have you, and he told me a little bit about the new platform that OpenStax has called Assignable. But one of the interesting conversations we had was, what is the future of the textbook format? As we have AI, and we have a next generation of alphas, and we have Generation Z that aren't really into long-form content. What does that mean for OER formats, and do we have to evolve? Brittany Dudek: I had actually, after our session... To plug us, I guess. Just kidding. No, I had a number of different community college staff, administrators, and instructors, reach out to me so that we could discuss how we are all working with different departments at our institutions about collaborating with bookstores, and RFPs and things like that. And so it really has been interesting conversations, because a lot of times those decisions are driven more from the business office side, so it's been really nice to have those conversations. I mean, I know it was kind of related to what we've been doing, but there are probably people that I may not have been able to connect with if it wasn't for these conferences. Also, I mentioned earlier that I had attended other conferences in that same month leading up, and one of those was WCET. And there was a fair amount of overlap in attendees, and that was not something that I had realized. And so it was very nice and very, honestly a little exciting, to see the overlap in the attendees from WCET to Open Ed, and to realize that there's maybe a little bit more in common than I had realized. So I'm planning on tapping into that a little bit too. Kevin Corcoran: And can I share that Brittany was trapped in that same hotel for, I think it was what, 10 or 14 days straight. Between Open Ed, WCET and ASWI. Brittany Dudek: Yeah, it was. It was 11 out of 12 days, I was in the exact same floor of the exact same hotel. Yeah, it was hard. I had the same meal, I think, three times. Yeah. Mike Mills: The conversations I had with several people didn't have anything to do with the sessions, it didn't have anything to do with politics. The focus was on the number of new faces that we hadn't seen before. These were conversations with individuals who have been to multiple Open Ed conferences, and multiple open webinars. And there were just, at least for me, a lot of people who I had not come in contact with, who I didn't recognize through different formats. So it gave me hope that this isn't dying anytime soon. Brittany Dudek: Yeah, that's a really great point, Mike. I had the same notice, and that same discussion with some of my original colleagues from the Open Ed Council, from CDHE, who we've been around what it feels like forever. And there's all these new faces. And I mean, they're not really new, it's just they're new to us. And it's so exciting. So, yeah. That's great. Mike Mills: Well, the listeners can't see it, but I'm wearing my Open Ed Association's shirt from the conference. And that just, I think, is another indication that there's a lot of individuals who are interested in moving this work forward. Zach Claybaugh: Yeah. So I will definitely echo what Brittany said. I think after our session, I did get to chat with quite a few people about the experiences that they were having on their campuses related to inclusive access, and the impact that that may or may not be having on the open education movement on their campuses. I will say that probably my favorite conversation was when we all went out to dinner with some folks from Pressbooks and I got a tour de force education on hockey, on professional hockey, from Kevin and John McLeod from Pressbooks. It was a fascinating discussion, I got to learn so much about all the different levels of hockey that lead to the NHL. It was pretty great. And I also learned a lot of Canada-related trivia, so a lot of fun. Kevin Corcoran: I'm sorry, Zach. Zach Claybaugh: No need to apologize. It was a good time. Brittany Dudek: I'm a hockey fan. I would have joined in on that conversation if I was down at the right end of the table, but we had a lot of conversation about Mexican food on my end of the table, so it was a great conversation too. Kevin Corcoran: Next time. Well, I'd like to pivot. So we had this look back at Open Ed, and I mentioned at the top of the show that we're gearing up towards Open Ed Week 2026. I wonder, what do you hope that 2026 will bring for the open ed community? Zach Claybaugh: I think one of the things that I saw is, it's really something that's been growing, but I saw it becoming more of a focus. Particularly when looking at the student presentations during one of the larger sessions with the whole group. But that's the globalization of open education, and the connection between different parts of the world in developing open educational resources, and open pedagogical practices that really span continents and connect people in a wide variety of areas. I think that that's something that's really exciting, and I look forward to learning more about how we're connecting with our fellow practitioners across the globe, and how we're bringing open educational practices to a wide variety of people and having our own practices informed. Brittany Dudek: I think I am hopeful, particularly with what I noticed about the crossover of attendees with the different conferences, with the growing community of open ed, how there's so many new people coming in. There's kind of a changing of the guard, if you will. That open ed really becoming more of the norm, with the focus now also on workforce and things like that. That it's not just small individual groups, or little pockets of open, but that it's just one of the choices. And it's integrated into work more. Maybe that's not necessarily 2026, but I hope that it becomes more of the norm in 2026. Mike Mills: One of the things that I hope to see in the near future, if not this coming year, the year after. Is just a stronger grasp of how to use AI to develop this content. And not just text-based content, but to use AI to make it easier to develop courses, to develop presentations, to develop videos. And when I say make it easier, just make it more accessible for faculty to have access to those tools, and to be able to utilize those resources. Right now, it's easy to do from a text-based standpoint, but it's not necessarily easy to do from an image or graphic standpoint. And so I think for me, integrating OER and AI even further is something that I'm hoping we can get to. Kevin Corcoran: And I'm going to piggyback on that, Mike. To take it a step further is that if we can reduce that barrier of entry for folks to use AI as a tool, we can not only develop all types of content, we can do remediation for accessibility, and then we could truly have an open first approach across our institutions. And say, "Look, exhaust all your options within open before you look at anything that has a cost to the institution or to the students." And that would be my wish, is that it becomes an open first mantra across the institutions. Well, we could go on forever, but as you all know, for those who have been listening, we do have sort of a time limit. And for those who've been with us for a bit of time, you also know that we are based on a theme around an open mic comedy club, and that it is our honor and our duty and obligation to end each show with the worst possible AI generated joke. And so our master of joke telling, Mike Mills, if you could bring us home, the mic is yours. Brittany Dudek: What do you have, Mike? Mike Mills: Well, I will just preface this. If I am the master joke teller, we are all in trouble, but here we go. Why don't open educational resources ever win at poker? They always show their cards. Brittany Dudek: Oh. Mike Mills: And those groans that you hear, they're also openly licensed. Brittany Dudek: Oh, Mike. Kevin Corcoran: All right. Well, and with that, the mic is closed. Thank you, everyone. Take care.